Conversations With the Crow Read online

  GD: The Germans developed one during the war and flew it. That I do know. Habermohl, Meithe and some wop.

  RTC: Yes, true enough. And after the war we got the plans and one of the engineers. The Russians got a prototype and another scientist.

  GD: Bender tells me the one he saw at Moffitt was made in Canada.

  RTC: Yes, by the A.V. Roe Company. Called it AVRO.

  GD: He said they had used it as a high altitude recon craft and it had USAF marking on it.

  RTC: They let him see it?

  GD: Been out of service for some time and he had some friend in the Navy who got him in.

  RTC: Well, those were the legit ones. There really were others, you know.

  GD: Russian?

  RTC: No. We have no idea where they came from. Radar picked up flights around the moon that never came from down here. And the Roswell business was true enough. That’s where we got transistors, you know. But the sightings came at a sensitive time. The Korean War, the Cold War and so on. Great national fears. Remember the Orson Wells program?

  GD: On Halloween of ’38. Mercury Theater radio show. I heard it as a kid. Of course I read Wells’ book and knew it was just a show.

  RTC: A lot of others did not, believe me. It caused an enormous national panic. Hundreds dead, people killing themselves and their children, fleeing into the countryside and so on. I’m, surprised they didn’t lynch Orson. But he infuriated old Hearst with his movie….

  GD: Citizen Kane.

  RTC: Right and old Hearst blackballed Orson and ruined his career. But because of the huge flap over this, Truman decided to keep serious accounts about the sightings out of the papers and they minimalized it and made fun of the whole thing. But they were real enough.

  GD: Given the huge number of systems out there, from a mathematical point of view, there isn’t any question superior entities do exist. Why would they bother with our planet? To watch the pink monkeys running around killing each other? Investigate Elvis concerts?

  RTC: Well, most of the legit sightings came around the period when they were all testing A-Bombs so maybe that got the little green men interested.

  GD: Did the Company have anything to do with all of this?

  RTC: No. We had the U-2 business but not the saucers. The real ones. They were strictly military. No weapons but did carry cameras. These were used in various places because they were impossible to intercept but not as stable a camera platform as the U-2. The Russians knew all about these and when the strangers showed up, they thought they were ours and we thought they were theirs. We had several secret conferences about these at the time to try to clarify this.

  GD: Any authentic reports of landings or abduction of humans?

  RTC: Not that I remember. Mostly what we could call recon passes. The Roswell one was a fluke. Lightning was supposed to have hit one of their ships and brought it down. Don’t forget that Roswell was in a very sensitive military area at the time.

  GD: Did they recover bodies?

  RTC: As I understand it, they did but I can’t give you any more than that. What did Müller have to say about these?

  GD: That they were both domestic and from somewhere unknown. I’ll include this passage when I do the journals or diaries.

  RTC: Journals sounds more authoritative. Diaries sounds like something a little girl keeps about her pets or boyfriends.

  GD: I think you’re right.

  RTC: When are they coming out?

  GD: They’re in German and the handwriting is terrible. And his wife is terrified that I’ll somehow identify her or the children. I won’t but she is not sure of that. Some of your friends will not be happy when this comes out but so what?

  RTC: So what. And after that? After the journals?

  GD: I don’t know. Any ideas?

  RTC: Well, we can always think about the Kennedy killing. I can give you some material on that that could produce a best seller.

  GD: For example?

  RTC: Now, Gregory, everything in its own good time. First things first. Finish up with the Müller business and then on to other things. One of these days, we’ll have to jerk Jim Critchfield’s chain a little. I can’t stand that man. His wife, Lois, used to work for me and when we were shortening staff, I got her a job with Jim but we both wish I hadn’t. Jim is a first class asshole and a sadist of sorts. I think we can do a number on him as they say.

  GD: Well, if you want to off him, I’m not your man. I’ve truly done in a few in my life but I prefer the typewriter to the gun. I do have an Irish friend who is a hit man but only political. He worked for your people in Ireland. He led the team that did Mountbatten in ’79.

  RTC: Oh, I know about that. They caught one man.

  GD: The man who planted the bomb on the boat but not my friend. A very interesting story.

  RTC: Are you planning to use it? He’s still alive I take it?

  GD: Oh yes, and doing fine in the private sector. And, most important, a very good friend. If I do anything, I’ll talk to him first. It’s not only OK but a real duty to fuck your enemies but never your friends.

  RTC: Well, in time I can tell you our part in that one but let’s wait awhile. Every day is not Christmas, is it?

  GD: That would be nice. Christmas every day. By the way, I read in the Post that it was so cold in DC the other day that a Senator was seen with his hands in his own pockets.

  RTC: (Laughs)

  GD: Did I ever tell you the one about the man who asked his girl friend to put her hands into his pocket? No?

  RTC: Not that I recall.

  GD: Anyway, she said ‘I feel silly doing this,” and he said, “If you put them any further down, you’ll feel nuts.”

  RTC: Gregory, so soon after breakfast. Don’t you know any refined jokes?

  GD: Limericks?

  RTC: God no. The last time you got off on those we were an hour on the phone and Emily wondered why I was laughing so much. You must know thousands of them. How can you remember so much?

  GD: It’s a curse, believe me.

  RTC: Bill said you have a phenomenal memory.

  GD: I can remember everything but dates and figures. No pre-natal memories.

  RTC: The shrinks are useless, Gregory. We hired weird people like Cameron and you would be astonished at the pure crap they peddled on everyone.

  GD: You know, I think most of them went into the game because they started reading up on their own psychosis and went on from there. Freud used to bang his sister when he wasn’t smoking Yen Shee….

  RTC: You mean opium?

  GD: Yes. Coleridge loved it too but Xanadu is all he had to show for it. Oh, I was digging into the Elmali business. The Greek coins. Now there’s a funny story for you. The Bulgarians forged up thousands of the rarest old Greek coins and sold them to the sucker brigades for millions. Cash for operations. Like the Stasi doing the Hitler Diaries.

  RTC: You were into that one, weren’t you?

  GD: I did all the detail work for Wolfgang and let Connie Kujau do the writing. Old Billy Price gave them a million dollars for the Hitler diary I turned out. I mean I did the research and Connie did the writing. Now that would make a nice book.

  RTC: Was if profitable for you?

  GD: Oh God, yes. Very. They still can’t account for millions of marks. But I really enjoyed watching the phonies and experts like Irving and Trevor-Roper get shit on their bibs. God, such a frenzied drive to get their names into print. Irving is such a brainless fuck that I can’t believe it. One of these days, Dave will really start believing his own lies and then he’ll get caught. ‘Irving’s been in hiding since early last fall when his picture first appeared on the Post Office wall.’

  RTC: Costello admired him.

  GD: Don’t forget, I met Costello. If he admired Irving, Irving must have a huge cock.

  RTC: Now, now, I liked Costello.

  GD: Brittle and vituperative without a reason or an excuse. I didn't have much use for him but he was a better writer than Irving.r />
  RTC: I’ll agree. But John tried.

  GD: What an epitaph!

  RTC: Do I detect professional jealousy here, Gregory?

  GD: No. You know how Costello died, don’t you?

  RTC: There is somewhat of a mystery about that. There is a story going around that the Russians did him because he had discovered something sinister on his last trip to Moscow. What have you heard?

  GD: John died of AIDS on a flight from Spain to Miami. Found him dead in his seat.

  RTC: Gregory, come now. Where did you get that canard?

  GD: It’s not a canard. Miami is in Dade County, Florida. When someone dies like that, the local coroner gets the body and has to do a post on it. I used to do posts so I have some knowledge. Anyway, I called the coroner’s office there, talked shop with a technician and got him to pull the initial death certificate and the final report. Costello had a raging lung infection only caused by HIV and died from it. Not open to debate at all. Since these are public records, I sent my new friend the money and he got official copies and sent them off to me. When I told Kimmel and Bruce Lee about this, Lee was very irate and, true to form, Kimmel refused to believe me. I can understand why Kimmel was negative because I can never be right but Lee’s reaction was interesting.

  RTC: Why speculate?

  GD: I’m a curious person, Robert. Why did the dog not bark in the night? Lee told me sinister forces got Costello and poisoned him with shellfish. The official autopsy report shows differently. I sent him a copy of the reports and he was not happy.

  RTC: Regardless of the truth of this, Costello was a very competent historian, don’t you think?

  GD: Costello alive didn’t particularly impress me. I talked with him in Reno, as you know, for about three hours and I’ve had more enlightening conversations with the harelip who grooms my dogs.

  RTC: How are your dogs?

  GD: Being dogs. Actually, Robert, I am a firm believer in Frederick the Great’s sentiment. He said that the more he saw of people, the more he loved his dogs. I told Tom Kimmel that and he got huffy about it.

  RTC: Tom is a decent sort but I agree he’s conventional.

  GD: How can you be a good intelligence officer and be conventional? I’m not at all conventional and you yourself said I would have been your best agent. Or were you just flattering me?

  RTC: You have talent.

  GD: Ah, my Russian friends have said the same thing but we don’t need to discuss that aspect, do we?

  RTC: That might be interesting.

  GD: Not to the author of the ‘New KGB.’ You did write that, correct?

  RTC: We had some help from Joe Trento.

  GD: I wouldn’t admit that to anyone. You should have used my literary abilities. Trento is of the mistaken impression that he’s important and articulate.

  RTC: We didn’t know you then but you probably would have done a much better job at that.

  GD: Truth pressed to earth will rise again.

  RTC: That’s….?

  GD: Mary Baker Eddy. Actually, it’s Latin. I could give it to you in Latin but what the hell? Oh, well, another day and another fifteen cents. How’re your family?

  RTC: Doing fine, thank you for asking. And yours?

  GD: My evil sister is still alive but all the rest of them have gone off to play cards with Jesus. If it’s true that when you die you have a great burst of glowing light and then you get to meet all your dead relatives, I think I’ll try to postpone the inevitable and find someplace where they aren’t. Like Monaco.

  RTC: Sam Cummings and Monaco. Do you know about Sam?

  GD: A Limey who ran Interarmco and sold to the wrong people. That’s a no-no for one of your people. And safe in Monaco. Sometime I’ll talk to you about Jimmy Atwood and his Merex gun operation but not now.

  RTC: Always promises. I'm going to have to cut this short Gregory because I have to do a little maintenance work upstairs and Emily keeps reminding me about this in a nice way. If you talk to Bill, ask him to call me, would you? His wife is not doing too well and it’s hard to get a hold of him.

  GD: Of course. And be good.

  RTC: At my age, there isn’t much reason not to.

  (Concluded at 9:38AM CST)

  Conversation No. 3

  Date: Saturday, February 24, 1996

  Commenced: 1:30 PM (CST)

  Concluded: 2:11 PM (CST)

  GD: Good afternoon, Robert. Been to church today?

  RTC: And good afternoon to you. Not today. Have you?

  GD: I’ve been in many churches in my life but for the architecture, not the services.

  RTC: I’ve never asked you, Gregory but are you Catholic?

  GD: In taste, Robert, but not in faith. I told Bender[5] what you had to say about the UFOs but did not credit you. I called you a senior intelligence official.

  RTC: I appreciate that. What did he say?

  GD: A subject that will be covered but in its place. Your point of view is that there were so-called official saucers used by the military and unofficial ones that no one knows anything about. Correct?

  RTC: Correct.

  GD: But by unofficial I don’t mean Russian.

  RTC: Yes.

  GD: I don’t suppose there’s paper on this?

  RTC: The Air Force would have it but we don’t. We had nothing to do with it but it was common knowledge that there were visitors not from this world.

  GD: I don’t want to spend much time on this because if I do, the critics will jump on it and claim I’m a Flying Saucer Nut. They already hate me and this would only give them more ammunition.

  RTC: When I read your first book, didn’t I tell you this would happen? You can’t claim you were surprised.

  GD: Yes, but they are so fucking stupid, pardon the French. ‘Oh hello Mr. Douglas! My name is Edgar Quince and I’m a reporter for TIME magazine. We were really thrilled to read your landmark book on the Gestapo fellow and we want to do an interview with you. Do you have any documents proving he worked for the CIA? We could put you on the cover of TIME! Wouldn’t that be exciting? We could fly a team out to see you tomorrow. And we want to see any CIA papers. By the way, what’s your home address?’ When I said stupid, that’s a typical example.

  RTC: Well, they really aren’t all that bright, unfortunately. Don’t forget, Gregory, I had to deal with the media for years. Cord and Frank did the publishing companies and I worked with media corporate. We had a death grip on them. Couldn’t and wouldn’t print a word if we told them not to or ran puff pieces we wanted out.

  GD: My late grandfather told me that once a newspaper man, always a whore.

  RTC: Let’s call them sluts, not whores. We rarely paid them and they just did it to make us happy.

  GD: That’s a difference without much of distinction, Robert. Did you have to take a shower after each and every meeting? Use Lysol to get off the stench?

  RTC: I’ve had to work with business executives, Gregory, and they’re worse. Believe me, the Mafia are more to be trusted. Don’t forget I was raised in Chicago and my father was a cog in the Kelly-Nash machine so I got to know some of the mob people.

  GD: My grandfather was a Chicago banker and I remember him saying once that the Ambassador belonged in Alcatraz along with his crime partner Capone.

  RTC: Your grandfather was right. Kennedy was tied up with the Chicago mob in the liquor business. Capone got crossed by Kennedy and put out a hit on him. Kennedy took the next train to Chicago with a satchel filled with large denomination bills. Paid Capone back the money with great interest and Alfonso forgave him.

  GD: Some history we have never heard before.

  RTC: How did your grandfather know about this? Was he involved?

  GD: No. He was involved with the Merchandise Mart and I guess that’s where he met Kennedy. Grandfather said he was an unconvicted bootlegger.

  RTC: True enough. Joe wanted to run his oldest for the White House but Roosevelt put a spoke into that plan. Franklin wanted to die in office…<
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  GD: Which he did…

  RTC: And the eldest son had a fatal accident in England.

  GD: I know. I covered that in the first book.

  RTC: The kid was supposed to pilot a plane full of explosives to a German V bomb base, parachute out and let the plane blow it up. Churchill, ever a good friend when Franklin was alive and giving him support, arranged for a radio station near the airfield to send out a trigger code and blew young Kennedy into cat meat. One hand washes the other, doesn’t it?

  GD: Bloodthirsty amoral shits, all of them. Müller told me once that when a man has achieved a certain elevation, morality goes down the tube. I remember his exact words. ‘Morality and ethics are excellent norms but not effective techniques.’

  RTC; I met him several times. An impressive man to be sure. Speaking of Müller, I ran into someone several days ago at the National Archives. A wonderful man and a great supporter of your book.

  GD: I didn’t think I had great friends inside the Beltway. Who was it? Corson?

  RTC: No, that butt-licking Wolfe. Sidled up to me and went on about how evil you were and how much damage you were doing to his friends at the CIA. And probably were a secret Nazi who longed to shove Jews into the ovens. He wants to think that the CIA loves him but he’s just another stool pigeon to them. They give gift pens to ones like that.

  GD: He’s always so nice to me but I trust him as far as I could throw him by his ears.

  RTC: I wouldn’t. Anything you say to him, goes straight to Langley.

  GD: Tell me I’m surprised. Wolfe’s as subtle as a fart in a spacesuit, but I keep filling him full of entertaining stories. I should send him a box of dignity pants before every phone session. Did you know that he got a top secret document for me out of the Archives? It was a ’48 Army General Staff report on top Nazis, listed as war criminals, that they and your people hired and brought over here?

  RTC: Could you give me chapter and verse on that one?

  GD: I’ll have to dig it out but I will.

  RTC: Top secret you say?

  GD: Release forbidden by presidential order.

  RTC: Probably Truman’s doing. Yes, would appreciate a copy.